When Disbelief Becomes a Challenge: King Pāyāsi and the Arahant

There was a king named Pāyāsi who was intelligent, courageous, and well-educated. He did not believe in cause and effect (karmic law), nor in samsara (cycle of rebirth), nor in any metaphysical world. Hearing of the reputation of Venerable Kumāra Kassapa, he wished to meet him for a debate. That dialogue became one of the classic Buddhist references on wisdom and faith.

When Success No Longer Relies on Luck

In life, some people achieve success through their own ability and careful calculation. They rarely believe in mystical matters. King Pāyāsi is a symbol of such individuals. Master Thich Chan Quang once observed that those who attain success through arduous struggle, meticulous planning, and constant mental effort, predicting the course of their work day and night, tend to have little faith in the supernatural or metaphysical.

Yet this king possessed a precious quality: he did not use his power to impose his views upon his people. The debate took place in a spirit of equality, sincerity, and openness. Master Chan Quang emphasized this point, noting that it reflected a cultural character of very equal, sincere, open, and straightforward debate. Both sides had good intentions, without any aggression or imposition from either party.

Is What We See All There Is?

The king stated his reasons for disbelief. He mentioned a close friend who lived wickedly; after death, no one saw him return from hell to report back. Another friend lived virtuously, yet after death, no one saw him return from heaven to report. The king asked: if there is cause and effect (karmic law), why does no one come back to tell us?

This is a question many people ask. We often wonder the same thing. The Venerable answered using analogies. When a criminal is caught, would anyone allow them to return home to inform their family? Those in hell are being punished; how could they be permitted to leave? He also used the example of a blind person. A blind person cannot see colors, but that does not mean colors do not exist.

To refuse belief simply because we cannot see something is hasty. Truth includes realities that cannot be seen with ordinary eyes but must be perceived with the eye of wisdom. Just as electromagnetic waves are invisible to the naked eye and inaudible to the ear, they truly exist and function. Modern science has developed thanks to understanding these unseen forces. Faith in cause and effect (karmic law) and samsara (cycle of rebirth) also requires the eye of wisdom, not just sensory perception.

The world unseen by ordinary eyes still exists: WiFi signals, infrared rays, and electromagnetic fields. Cause and effect (karmic law) and samsara (cycle of rebirth) operate invisibly and require wisdom to comprehend. Do not hastily deny what you have not yet seen.

The Sewer Pit and the Sky of Devas

The Venerable compared the human world to a sewer pit. People who live virtuously and are reborn in heavenly realms look back at this world and find it dirty and foul, having no desire to return. Furthermore, time in the heavens differs from time among humans. One day in a heavenly palace may equal a hundred years in the mortal world. Therefore, when our loved ones are reborn there, they are still enjoying happiness and have not yet thought of returning to send news to us.

Our world is like a sewer pit. Those born into heavenly realms are like people who escape, bathe, and become new beings; they are horrified by this world. Master Chan Quang also shared a story about Master Thien Thanh, who during an out-of-body experience smelled the odor of the temple despite its vegetarian diet, realizing the impurity of the earthly realm. Nevertheless, devas remain compassionate and often descend to protect those with sincere hearts, especially when we chant the Buddha’s name, practice meditative concentration, or generate wholesome minds.

Believing in Right Dharma, Living Without Negativity

The king also criticized those who believed in cause and effect (karmic law) as living passively, pessimistically, or even committing suicide hoping for karmic results. The Venerable affirmed that correct belief is right faith, but one must understand the operation of cause and effect (karmic law). It does not make us passive; rather, it encourages acting in accordance with the Dharma, doing good, and practicing letting go of greed, hatred and delusion. The Buddha taught people to live responsibly, perform good deeds, and cultivate the mind to transform afflictions (kleshas).

Correct faith helps us abide in the present moment without baseless worry. This is the foundation of happiness.

Lessons for Dharma Teachers and Ourselves

The greatest lesson Master Chan Quang drew is that when giving a dharma talk, one must stand in the emotional state and level of understanding of the listener. If we speak to young people using only classical Chinese sutras, they will find it difficult to accept. We must use what they already know to guide them toward what they do not yet know.

In daily life, we too must learn to view things with wisdom, avoiding hasty conclusions. Let us live with compassion, understanding that every action has a result. Do not let doubt become chains binding us in this lifetime.

The dialogue between King Pāyāsi and Venerable Kumāra Kassapa ended with the king’s transformation. This reminds each of us to open our hearts and minds to see realities beyond ordinary sight. The Buddha's teachings (Dharma) do not demand blind faith but invite us to investigate, practice, and realize the truth ourselves.