The Dialogue of the King Who Did Not Believe in Cause and Effect (Karmic Law) and the Lesson on the Wisdom of Persuasion

While traveling through the small kingdom of King Bayasi, the Venerable Kumarakassapa encountered a king who believed in nothing. He did not believe in cause and effect (karmic law), did not believe in samsara (cycle of rebirth), and did not believe in any metaphysical world. That king was educated, intelligent, and strong-willed, and he was willing to argue with reason rather than with power. This story is recorded in the Payasi Sutta — a discourse that still makes us reflect today on human stubbornness and on the wisdom of a true practitioner.

When "not believing" is a common ailment

Thầy Thích Chân Quang opens his lecture with a very worldly observation: people who achieve success through genuine ability and meticulous calculation often "tend toward a pragmatic, materialistic mindset, unwilling to believe in anything vague or mystical." King Bayasi is a symbol of this type of person — from ancient times to now, they do not believe what their eyes cannot see. They represent countless people on this earth who have said: "If hell exists, why has no one ever returned to tell us? If heaven exists, why has no one ever come down to report?"

"We merely believe, but we do not see. And being forced to believe like that forever is unreasonable. One must see, yet no one has ever come back to report."

In fact, the teacher himself admits: "It does exist, but the number of people who can understand and see their departed relatives return to report is extremely rare." But because it is so rare, most of us — those who do not yet possess the divine eye — rush to conclude that it does not exist. That is an attitude each of us has fallen into at some point.

A civilized and humane debate

What is precious in this story is that both sides argue with reason, without coercion. Although King Bayasi held power, he "did not use his power to force others to follow him, but relied only on reasoning." The Venerable Kumarakassapa was the same. Both were cultured, educated men who spoke gently and courteously. The teacher remarks: "This is the cultured character of a debate that was very equal, very sincere, very open, and very honest."

"Both sides had good will; neither side showed arrogance or imposition."

It was precisely this equality and respect that made the debate so profound. If an Arhat had used supernatural powers to prove his point, the king would not have been persuaded. But through reasoning — starting from what the king knew and lifting him toward what he did not yet know — the Venerable persuaded the king step by step.

The art of preaching the Dharma from an Arhat

The Venerable Kumarakassapa is regarded as the foremost preacher of the Dharma among the Buddha's disciples. He used images from everyday life: a criminal who is arrested and executed cannot return to report; a person rescued from a latrine pit, once washed clean, does not wish to return; a blind man who cannot see colors... From these, he guided the king step by step to realize that "there are things we cannot see, but that does not mean they do not exist." Thầy Thích Chân Quang emphasizes: "That is a hasty conclusion. For truth, you see, contains things that cannot be seen with the ordinary eye but must be seen with the eye of wisdom."

"What I cannot see, I do not believe. That is a hasty conclusion. For truth, you see, contains things that cannot be seen with the ordinary eye but must be seen with the eye of wisdom."

The teacher also gives the example of radio waves — invisible to the eye, yet the speaker still sounds. Science advances precisely by discovering what cannot be seen. The more we read the sutras, the more we see how sharp and timeless the wisdom of the Venerable Kumarakassapa truly is.

A lesson for modern people: when persuading others

One great lesson Thầy Thích Chân Quang draws is this: when we want to persuade someone, we must "step into the feelings, the level of understanding, and the circumstances of the listener." He draws on his own experience: "Recently on Sunday I went to give a talk in Mỹ Tho, and it was a heavy failure... that day I preached to monastics, but only nuns were present, and even they did not much enjoy listening." That lesson is not only for dharma teachers, but for all of us whenever we wish to share something with friends, children, or colleagues. Begin with what they know, from their circumstances, and only then slowly lift them higher.

"If we preach the Dharma at the wrong level, not matching their feelings, circumstances, and cultural background, they will find it very hard to absorb."

This is also the message I wish to send to each of us: we often want to believe, but because our knowledge and vision are limited, we deny what we cannot grasp. Let us open our hearts and not rush to conclusions. Like King Bayasi, who in the end was persuaded and won over by the wisdom of an Arhat, we too can learn to listen, and learn to persuade with compassion and wisdom.

Let the story of the king and the Arhat kindle within us a deep faith in cause and effect (karmic law), and more than that, an open way of living that respects difference. For truth does not lie in lofty words, but in the ability to see with the eye of wisdom.